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List building and email marketing made simple with Jenn Donovan

If you’re like many business owners and email marketing has made its way into the too hard basket, this conversation might just reinspire you to give it another crack. I'm thrilled to be chatting with social media marketing extraordinaire, Jenn Donovan, about how to simplify the often complicated arena of email marketing.

A seasoned marketing strategist and the host of Small Business Made Simple podcast, Jenn shares why cultivating an email list is a must-have for every business. When first starting out, many business owners start by creating an Instagram or Facebook account, but they neglect to think about the huge benefits of email marketing.

In this episode, Jenn shares her tips on how to go about building out your email list. We talk about lead magnets and why they should provide value to the point where someone would be willing to pay for them. However, instead of paying money, your clients are paying for your lead magnet with their email address - a very high commodity.

There’s no point in having an email list if you don’t do anything to nurture those relationships. Jenn talks about what it means to nurture your audience by sending out email sequences and how to implement a re-engagement strategy if it’s been a while since you’ve contacted them.

One thing a lot of business owners struggle with is knowing what content to share in email marketing. Jenn talks about the power of repurposing content that you are already sharing through your social media and that even if the email doesn’t get opened every time, it still helps with brand recognition and keeping your business front and centre.

The main thing is to stay consistent. Don’t get into manic marketing where you send a bunch of emails out for a few weeks and then go silent. Make sure you create a plan that will be sustainable for you and don’t worry about everything being perfect. The best business advice Jenn received was “ready, fire, aim”, meaning that you don’t need to have everything figured out before you give it a go. Just get started connecting with your audience, consistently showing up and nurturing those relationships. They signed up to your email list for a reason!

Topics We Covered:

[00:00:00] Kristy: Hello boss and welcome back to the Run Your Business like A Boss podcast. My guest today Jenn Donovan, who is the business owner of Social Media and Marketing, as well as the podcast host of Small Business Made Simple is joining me for a conversation on email marketing.

[00:00:18] Now for many business owners, email marketing ends up being one of those things that just gets pushed down the to-do list and into the too hard basket. But Jenn, who has spent 15 years running her own small businesses in the trenches doing the things is here to tell you the real value of building a list and building a relationship with your ideal client Through email marketing. And what I really love about Jenn's approach is that it really is simple. It doesn't need to be hard, it doesn't need to be overthought, and it doesn't need to be something that's super complicated and requires a whole bunch of time. So in this conversation, Jenn and I talk about how do we make this achievable and what are the things that you need to do to get your list going and to build that relationship, as I said, with your ideal client.

[00:01:09] All that and more coming up in this conversation. Are you ready? Let's go. Jenn. Hello. Thank you so much for joining us on the Run Your Business Like a Boss podcast. I am so excited to dive into all things email marketing and mailing list, as I think this is something that many business owners need to dive into just that little bit more.

[00:02:02] Jenn: Yeah, I couldn't agree more with that. And thank you so much for having me on the podcast. I'm a little bit excited to talk to you, but also to talk about email marketing. It is something that I think people underwrite, so I'm here to hopefully maybe change your listeners' mind.

[00:02:19] Kristy: Absolutely. There's so much advice and there's so much information out there about social media marketing and other forms of marketing, and a little less so for the email marketing. So I know that, uh, our listener today is just gonna get so much value as.

[00:02:35] Jenn: Excellent.

[00:02:36] Kristy: As you know, running a business requires business owners to know and do all the things, and very often as business owners and my listeners generally are in this messy middle stage of business, and there are so many things that we need to do, and very often part of what we have to do as business owners is to triage and figure out what are our priorities and what do we need to do, to support our business.

[00:03:00] And when it comes to lead generation and sales, many people focus on more of that top of funnel activity, which is maybe attracting new audiences into their ecosystem, but a little less so in that more mid funnel. So I'm keen to dive into email marketing specifically. Can you share with us why email marketing is an essential part of that sales journey?

[00:03:28] Jenn: Yeah, look, it really is, like you say, a complete essential ingredient that we all need in our business. But I think just to rewind the clock just a tiny bit, it really does depend a little bit on your target audience. Like if your target audience is under 25, I'm probably not. The person to be speaking to about email marketing, I'm not quite sure.

[00:03:49] Under 20 fives, uh, you know, well they all have an email address obviously, but I'm not quite sure that many of them are the people we would be marketing to. And 25 might be a little bit of a generalization, but we are kind of looking at, you know, I guess older demographics when it comes to email marketing.

[00:04:06] For sure. And I think it's an essential part for me. Social media is amazing. I could talk about social media till the cows come home. I love it. But it's very much like you said, top of funnel. It's where we get to meet new people. Um, it's where new people get to meet us for the first time potentially.

[00:04:25] And we get to sort of tell a little bit about who we are and what we can do for them. But email marketing is the place to really nurture people. You've built some level of trust with them because, you know, to give out the email address these days is a little bit like giving out your phone number. We are kind of like, you're gonna spam me, you know, do I really wanna give you my email address?

[00:04:47] Um and we all have that email address we give to people that we'd never wanna hear from again, that email address we never look at, we don't want that, we want the good email address, but it really is a, a nurture thing. So I think social media was a really great place to meet new people, but the whole goal of social media should be to get people off social media into an email list where you can be nurturing them, where you can segment them and have really good conversations with them Rather than on social media, you might be talking about everything you do.

[00:05:18] Like you can really hone in on what they're interested in, you know, if they're interested in bike riding as opposed to all, sorts of sports or if they're interested in email marketing, as opposed to everything to do with marketing. So you can really have those, I guess. Those conversations with your audience where they feel a little bit more like you are just talking to them like that real human to human marketing interactions with them.

[00:05:46] Kristy: Yeah, I love that. So when you say nurturing, I mean, you mentioned a few different things around being able to get more specific in how you're having that conversation, a more one-to-one, but what, what is it that you actually mean by nurturing?

[00:06:00] Jenn: Nurturing. I think, well, for a start, I think we've got more opportunities to have conversations with them on email because. Hopefully if you write good emails, more people will open the email than potentially what we'll see your content on social media due to algorithms and things like that, but nurturing until either they're ready to buy or until they're ready to buy again, really is what I mean at nurturing.

[00:06:25] know, we are in business, we're in business to make money. Like yes, we are probably in business for other reasons. But at the end of the day, if we are not making money, it's not really a business that we are in, so we've gotta make money. So we are nurturing them until they're ready to buy. We've qualified them hopefully a little bit because of that's how they've got in our list.

[00:06:45] Such as they've downloaded, um, a lead magnet, which solves one of their problems. So we've kind of qualified them. It's like these people could potentially be customers of ours as opposed to, unfortunately, I've seen lots of bad ways to grow your email list, such as accountants having a competition where you can win an iPad.

[00:07:05] Guess who wants the iPad versus guess who wants to hear from the accountant ever again. So it. If you can qualify your list, the people that are coming on your list as potentials, that's what I mean by nurturing them. We're having conversations with them, we're giving value to them. We are making them feel heard and seen 'cause we kind of know what their issues are and nurturing them until they're ready to buy or to buy again.

[00:07:30] Kristy: Yeah, it certainly sounds like it's about building that relationship and you know, you can definitely build the connection online via socials and whatnot, but it's really that opportunity to go that next step in terms of building that relationship with them, which obviously helps to, helps to enrich that trust factor, that like factor that all the things that we know about.

[00:07:52] You know, marketing and good marketing, but really helping to build that relationship is what I'm hearing. And you know, I think there's something about, like, I see people who market to me in, in the emails and it's that repetition of seeing them. You know, sometimes I think that you can get lost on social media.

[00:08:09] There's a lot of things going on, but when people are in your inbox, there is something about just seeing that name over and over and over again. And the, even if you don't open the emails, there's that subject line that's so powerful that just, I dunno, it's not dead in the water. It, it absolutely, regardless of whether they read it word for word, there's so much value in it.

[00:08:29] Jenn: Yeah. And a lot of people say to me like, oh, I get heaps of emails, Jenn and I never read them. Like, would email marketing really work? And I'm like, but do you read some of them? They're like, Yeah, of course. I read some of them, like you probably read the good ones. You probably read the ones that, you know, you've developed that relationship with the ones that you know will offer value to you.

[00:08:49] And like you say, you don't have to open every one of them. There's a couple of e-commerce, um, businesses that I subscribe to. They're my go-to with when I wanna buy something. But I'm not that rich. I don't buy something every email, but I don't unsubscribe because you know, they're keeping top of mind.

[00:09:07] And when I think, oh, I really need a blue jacket, guess where I'm gonna go? I'm gonna go to that business even again, even if I haven't opened their email, they're the first people that I'm gonna think of because I have that relationship with them. They're keeping top of mind by continuing to land in my inbox.

[00:09:22] Kristy: yeah. absolutely. That continuing to land in your inbox, there's so much power in that. Yeah. Many of my listeners, as I mentioned earlier, are more of that established business owner and maybe have dabbled in list building previously, but they haven't really got going with it because as I said, there's just so much other things that they've been focusing on, and I think that it's really important that we acknowledge it's never too late to start a list and, start communicating with your ideal client in this way. But If they were to, you know, be established and either dabbled in it or not yet started, where, where would they go? What should they do next?

[00:10:04] Jenn: I, I guess, um, I totally agree with you. It's never too late to start, but if your listener just happens to be a startup, I really feel that, you know, people go, oh, I wanna start a business. I'm gonna open up an Instagram, or I'll open up Facebook, or, you know, I'll start a LinkedIn account. It's like, if only I could, you know, Get inside their heads and say, and also let's talk about list building, even if it's into an Excel spreadsheet for a start.

[00:10:27] because you've got no idea what you want to do with them. At least you can start sort of building that list of people so it's never too late. But it is really something that I hear a lot of people say, I wish that I did earlier. So where should they start? I guess technology. You know, at the end of the day, like I say, you can sort of start with a spreadsheet, but that's going to get pretty tired pretty quick.

[00:10:49] If, you know, that would be like sending a DM to absolutely everybody through Instagram. Like it's gonna get pretty tiring, pretty quick. We, um, hopefully our businesses grow, outgrow that quite quickly. So it's choosing tech and that is probably one of the spaces that holds people back, is there is so much choice out there.

[00:11:07] And I often see in, you know, Facebook groups like, you know, I wanna start. Doing some email marketing, what platform does everyone use? Well, I think that, you know, if 50 people answer, there's probably 45 different answers. Like there's not sort of one platform out there that you know, most people use like 90% of people use.

[00:11:26] I think it used to be MailChimp, but MailChimp have really damaged themselves in my personal opinion, and I no longer think that that is the place that most people would recommend that you go now. So it is choosing that tech. It's looking at your budget for that tech. Like, you know, they say that, um, your return on your investment is about $45 for every dollar that you spend in email marketing, but you gotta get there first.

[00:11:51] That's not gonna happen with your first email. So you do have to look at your budget and go, how much have I got to spend on an email platform? , and you know, I guess asking friends, asking other people, you know, what they use, having an idea of how you're going to grow your list know, I guess the most obvious thing is perhaps a, a lead magnet.

[00:12:11] And a lead magnet is basically, Something that you exchange for someone's email address. So more than likely it's a P D F download. Sometimes it's a series of three short videos. Sometimes it's a checklist or a mini ebook or something like that. And that's basically, your hook, uh, to get people to exchange for their email address.

[00:12:36] My principle is that should be worth money. So people should be willing to pay for your lead magnet, even if it's only $7 or $5 or, you know, it doesn't have to be worth hundreds, but people should look at it and go, oh, I would actually pay for that. That sounds like something I actually need. So it's kind of gotta hit that, I guess that pain points or those pleasure points, depending on how your ideal client reacts, whether they react to pain or they react to pleasure. And yeah, so hit sort of hitting that and, and then begin list building and starting, I. I guess if you have your lead magnet and you attract them, it's like, what's next?

[00:13:14] And I think that is the bit where people sort of fall down, is that they then start building a list, but they don't talk to that list and that list goes cold quite quickly. I was just talking to someone yesterday about social media ads and how people might go really hard on ads for two months and then not do it for another 10 months.

[00:13:32] Well, your account's really quite cold. You've kind of gotta warm your account back up. Then it's the same with an email list if you don't talk to it for, you know, Two months or three months, or even longer. Like those people are quite cold leads then. So it's having that I guess that strategy in place when you start to go righteo, what does email marketing look like for me? How often am I going to do it? What am I gonna say? And all of those sorts of things.

[00:13:59] Kristy: Yeah, I love that. I actually mentioned in last week's episode about manic marketing and it just rings so true and you see it. All the time how people just go, you know, they just go hard and then overextend themselves in some ways and then they go radio silence.

[00:14:15] And there's no faster way to devalue your brand and lose trust if you are going in and going out because people question your motives. Whereas if you show up and you're there consistently, whether that's once a month, once a week, whatever that looks like and is suitable for you, your business and your clients.

[00:14:33] There's just so much that you are, depositing in your brand if you just have that consistency, whatever that looks like for you. So I totally relate to that.

[00:14:43] Jenn: Yeah. I love that. That's such a great example that manic marketing. And that's where it comes down to having a plan. Like, you know, strategy's just a fancy word for plan. But yeah, it's like having that plan going forward of what you're going to do. And really, like if your listener is already showing up on social media and already giving value on social media, you've already got.

[00:15:04] Probably emails sitting there that you could turn your social media posts into emails. I had this epiphany, uh, a couple of years ago. I do podcasting as well. And of course, you know, the idea is that you do a podcast and then you post about it on social and all of a sudden I was kind of like, Well, actually what I post about on social could actually become a podcast.

[00:15:24] Like, why hadn't I never thought of to reverse engineer that. And it's the same with email marketing, what you're posting about what you're giving value about. Even those funny memes or quotes, like, you know, they could become part of an email that you actually post out there. So it's not really necessarily rethinking your content strategy. Maybe it's repurposing some of your content strategy in a slightly different way.

[00:15:49] Kristy: Oh, absolutely. And anything that we can make easier for ourselves as business owners is, is that's how you're gonna show up, right? Like, if it's complicated, if there's so many steps involved, that's when we opt out. But to your point, if there's, you know, if you've got posts that are performing on social media, you don't have to have a podcast like Jenn and I, if, if there's a post that does really well, tease that out, make it more personal really let that person on the list know that this is for them and why it's for them specifically, because, you know, that's that, that relationship building. I just wanna circle back. So you mentioned you know, one of the first things to do if you are either getting started with list building for the first time, or you are even an existing business and you just haven't quite gotten there yet.

[00:16:33] It's really finding that email marketing software that works for you. And I agree a hundred percent Jenn. MailChimp, I, I tried it like many, many, many, many years ago, probably about a decade ago now. Now, and it just was clunky even back then and it just hasn't moved with the time. So I've tried a different, a couple of different ones, but love the system that I'm using right now.

[00:16:54] And yeah, it is probably just a little bit about working out the right fit for you and plenty of options there. And then that lead magnet. And I really love the way that you said it should be something that people are paying for because essentially they are, the transaction though is your email address of course. Which is probably more valuable than $10. Let's face it.

[00:17:14] Jenn: Lifetime customer value. Yes. It should be worth more than $10. Yeah.

[00:17:18] Kristy: A hundred percent. So, you know, you've really gotta think about that. And what I love, I don't know where I heard this, I don't, it was a while ago. Maybe it was Amy Porterfield back in the day. But the lead magnet should be like that little mini step closer to.

[00:17:34] The transformation that you'll fully take them on. And I loved that perspective because we're so scared of putting out our best work for free. But the reality is, is that if your ideal client, and I'm talking to more service-based businesses here, which are a lot of the listeners, not all of course, but if you can get them that much further, then imagine what you're going to be able to do with them inside of your service or your program or, or, or container or whatever it is that you are offering. What are your thoughts on that, Jenn?

[00:18:02] Jenn: Yeah, I a hundred percent agree. Um, it's all about those little micro conversions. It's about, you know, again, it's about nurturing them. If you can solve one of their biggest problems in business for free, like how impressive is that? It's like, whoa, if I've got this for free, what am I going to get if I actually work with this person?

[00:18:20] Or if I buy their a thousand dollars course or their 200 course, or whatever it is. So it is, it's about listening, I think, to your. Customers and your clients and your social followers and your community, and just looking for those signs of what's that consistent question that you hear and how can you solve it?

[00:18:39] Is it as simple as going to Canva and you know, setting up a bit of a checklist that they could go through before they email, you know, Start marketing or whatever your business is. For me, one of the biggest questions that I hear is, you know, I dunno what to post on social media. So my lead magnet is 108 social media content creation ideas, like, you know, here's 108 of them.

[00:19:02] It's not fancy, it's done in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, all the way to 108. It's not brilliantly designed, but it's like, here it is. And then of course I didn't mention before, but after that, you know, sort of have a bit of a welcome sequence for, you know, anyone who's just landed. And of course one of my first emails is like, did you get it?

[00:19:22] Did you print it out? Because you need to put it up where you can see it every single day. So not only am I helping them, you know, hopefully they'll print it out and they'll put it up. And when they feel that, you know, they have content issues, they can look at it. But then that's then my brand up every single day when they look at that thing, you know, it, it, they mightn't think Jenn Donovan.

[00:19:44] But, you know, I guess, you know, subconsciously they're seeing my brand every single day. So there's something in it for them. There's something in it for me, but it's listening to your audience and going, what's that thing that I keep hearing over and over again and how can I solve it quickly? And it's valuable to them.

[00:20:02] Kristy: Yeah, I love that. I love that, like in that email to remind them to do the thing because we, there's so much information out there, there's so much you know, great advice for free, but so few people actually go away and implement it. And what you are doing is giving that little nudge of, have you done the thing because you know, you took action and here it is, and here's that incredible thing.

[00:20:23] But the thing that I really love is, and, and this is for anyone who maybe feels a little overwhelmed by the concept of getting started with list building, because I've been there, like I think I didn't really, really get going on my list until I was about two years into my business, is that it doesn't need to look super fancy.

[00:20:40] It's the content and it's the solving of that problem that is so much more important. Jenn said her words exactly, maybe not verbatim, but is that it doesn't look fancy. It's, it's just 108 ideas of what to post on social media and the power of solving that problem is so much more important than having something really like flashy.

[00:21:02] Jenn: Because I want them to print it out, and if it's too fancy, it'll take up too much ink in their printer and they won't print it out. Whereas if it's just black and white and DOT point, they're more likely to print it out. Again. It's just kind of thinking the process through, like, that's the reason why it's quite simple. So if they don't wanna print page one, it's just black and white after that. So yeah, it is thinking about that process for the person that you want to actually get the download. Like there's some amazing things out there. I'll see someone with a lead magnet or something and I will actually go and sign up for it and have a look at it because I think, whoa, that is awesome.

[00:21:39] You know that as a free resource. Like people are really clever and I think programs like Creative Market, which is kind of like Canva, but you pay for templates there and Canva, like they've just revolutionized, you know, the idea of a lead magnet these days and made it so much simple for us.

[00:21:56] Kristy: Oh, a hundred percent. And I think the other thing to remember is that you can act fast, right? You can get that thing out there. If you know the question or the challenge that you can solve with this asset, build something, use creative market, use Canva, whatever, but just get it out there and then you can always iterate it like

[00:22:17] it doesn't have to be The total like package at, you know, that you could do afterwards. See how it performs. Don't get caught on things that are just gonna feel too overwhelming for you. You're far better off getting what you need to get across, getting that out to your ideal clients so they can start to make those transformations so that equally you can start to build that list and further your relationship with them, rather than saying, oh, I've gotta build that lead magnet, then it just gets pushed down the to-do list. Six months later, 2024 rolled around. And you're still thinking about that podcast that Jenn and Kristy had back in August.

[00:22:55] Jenn: Yeah, absolutely. I think the, the new social media platform threads has been a really good example to all of us about how much further you have to be along the line to be considered an expert. Like we all started threads together. No one knew anything other than the people who built it, and yet, I think it was day two, I started seeing people.

[00:23:17] You know, helping people, this is how you use threads and here's my download sheet on, you know, all that I've learned, um, threads. And I'm like, all that you've learned in 24 hours. Like seriously, they, they're like literally one, possibly two steps ahead of everyone else, but they've decided they're the teacher.

[00:23:34] And I think, again, that's what we get stuck on. It's just like, but what do I know that other people don't know? Or, I'm not the expert in my field or, But it's like you don't have to be, you just have to be one or two steps ahead of your audience for and know something they don't know in order to help them move their business a little bit further or something like that.

[00:23:52] So I think sometimes we overthink what it can be as a lead magnet, and I think Threads was such a great example of people just taking, you know, the bull by the horns and going, I am going to put a stake in the ground and pretend I am a threads expert, despite the fact I probably know not much more than everybody else.

[00:24:12] Kristy: Yeah, and you know what the reality is is, and this is actually the perfect place to talk about, we underestimate our power and some people they just wrap their head around those things really quickly and they know how to articulate that and fast track someone else. And other people, they might jump on threads.

[00:24:30] I think, you know, people like you and I, Jenn, we jump on it. It's pretty easy to figure out. But there are people that get into, you know, this new platform that feel overwhelmed. Should I post this? Should I. Second guessing themselves. And so someone else to say, Hey, I can help you with this and I'm confident that I can support you.

[00:24:46] Those people that can't figure it out themselves, why not? Like I think that we underestimate our power in how we can help people. And it really comes back to that. How can you help people? And yes, of course you're building a list along the way, of course you are moving people through the sales journey to potentially becoming a client.

[00:25:05] But you know, if they never become a client, you're still gonna create incredible impact, and it's still leaving the world in a better place than what it was before.

[00:25:12] Jenn: Yeah, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. And just to sort of, I, I guess, um, circle back to what you were saying before about, you know, you don't have to have it, it perfect or, or your ducks in a row before you put it out there. That's kind of what sequences are about in emails. So when I create a new sequence, say for instance, I started, you know, created a new lead magnet, and then I have a welcome sequence that belongs to that lead magnet, which might be a series of three or four emails that might go out over let's say two weeks. It could be longer than that. But then the, with my tech that I use, I actually then put a thing at the end where I wait a hundred days before the sequence can end, just in case I get feedback on the lead magnet or I think of something, I think, man, that should be in the next email because I've forgotten to give them direction on this.

[00:25:59] Or, I think this would be a really good addon to that. And then I can just kind of put that into the email sequence and you know, and then they'll get that on top of it. So kind of. I guess leaving those gaps and not think, not expecting everything to be perfect at once, but realizing once you've got them on your list, that's the idea.

[00:26:17] Then you can go back and to everyone who downloaded that and say, Hey guys, I've now revised that. I thought I'd send you out the revised edition of that, or whatever that might be. Or there was a spelling mistake just in case, you know, you want it to be perfect. Here it is again, which is what I do often.

[00:26:35] Kristy: Oh, I love that you do too. I, I swear I read my, my posts or my emails 50 times and as soon as I hit send or publish, it's like, oh, there it is. But that's okay. You know what? It doesn't matter at the end of the day. Like it really, I think I. Yes, definitely. If it's something that people are gonna be printing out and putting up on a wall, for sure if you spot it, you can always update it. But, um, yeah, no, I love the fact that like, let's just make it easy. To your point, Jenn, and I just wanna quickly recap. So the, the assets that we need as a business owner, if we're going to start building a list and building a relationship with our prospects via email would be that lead magnet.

[00:27:12] So, cheat sheet, that something that's going to help them on their journey or that really relates to your business or something that you can help them with. And Jenn said, listen, listen up. Listen. What are those repeatable things that you're being asked? The other thing is to have some sort of email software.

[00:27:28] And I actually have a couple of clients that's even used their website. Like they have a, a, a build a website like Squarespace or Wix. That's such a great starting point. You know, you've already paying for that system. Why not start there? You can always move it over to A E D M software later. Another piece is that email sequence, so it's that series of emails, one to two, three emails that they get following the asset that's going to help them to continue with that journey with the lead magnet. Is there anything else that we've missed in terms of assets that they need for email marketing?

[00:28:02] Jenn: think it's probably then the follow one. So again, you know, if you're going to email them weekly, having a bit of a plan of what weekly looks like, or if you're gonna choose seasonally, you better make it really good. Like if you're gonna email them once a quarter, it better be a really good email and memorable, because that's a long time between drinks for an email list.

[00:28:22] Quarterly it can be done and some people do it quite successfully, but that isn't the size of the email that you would send weekly, for instance, if you're just going to send it quarterly. So having some sort of plan, I guess, as to what, you know, whether it's weekly or fortnightly or monthly, whatever you choose.

[00:28:39] And just going straight back to, you know, your point, where we started Kristy was kind of like, you've gotta be consistent. You know, none of this, emailing them every week for a month and then they don't hear from you from another six months. So it's kind of having that plan and looking at the content you've already got.

[00:28:54] If you're already in business, if you're already establishing business, you probably have an absolute ton of content out there. It's just a matter of giving yourself maybe the time to sit back and go, how can I repurpose that? Or employing a virtual assistant or something like that and make it their job of, you know, finding content that can be repurposed.

[00:29:14] Scroll back 12 months in your Instagram and start there, or something like that. I think it, having that plan is the next point of call because you wanna keep that audience warmed up and of course a sales strategy. They're not doing it for fun. What are the micro conversions? I call them micro conversions.

[00:29:32] So it could be like, you know, click here to listen to this. Or you know, are we friends on social media? Um, have you joined my Facebook group? Whatever that is. Like, you know, every email having that little micro conversion. But where are you pointing them to? Where are you warming them up to go? 'cause eventually you're gonna have to sell to them.

[00:29:49] You know, it's all about the nurture, but it's also all about the conversion as well. So, having a little bit of a plan. You don't have to have 12 months planned out obviously, but having some sort of plan that will be able to keep you consistent is definitely, I guess, the next part of that little puzzle that you need as you start.

[00:30:09] Kristy: Yeah, definitely. So just a quick question. If, let's say our listener today is already doing some list building and it's just not, it's not firing up, it's not going anywhere. Do you have any, troubleshooting or advice or tips or something that can, they can maybe look to, to see if that's what the problem is?

[00:30:30] Jenn: Yeah, I think if anyone's got a big list or I shouldn't say big list because a big list could be a hundred people for some people, and it could be 10,000 for other people, but if you, uh, are perhaps consistently getting around 20 or 30% of people opening your emails, so there's 60 or 70% that aren't, maybe taking them through some sort of re-engagement strategy, reengagement emails, would be a really good strategy.

[00:30:54] So it, it's probably. In my head, I guess it's kind of like three really short, sharp messages, kind of like, you know, do you still wanna be on here? Um, you know, promise we'll have some fun. Um, you know, this is the last time I'll email you just sort of that list cleaning. Type of thing. Re-engagement emails can be, you know, a little bit more fun or a little bit more to the point.

[00:31:17] But I think sending them through some sort of re-engagement strategy and then making sure that they're not going through some other funnel at the same time. Like, you don't wanna be, you know, sending them 12 emails in a week. Uh, so, Getting that group of emails and most E D M systems should be able to tell you the people that haven't opened your email in six months or something.

[00:31:37] This is something that I do probably six to nine monthly, depending on how my business is running and what time I allocate to this. Every six to nine months, I will actually go and clean my list and then stop emailing the people that haven't opened probably in the last six to nine months unless there's a particular campaign.

[00:31:54] But if they haven't opened one of my weekly emails in six months. Uh, there's every chance that maybe they, you know, don't wanna be on the list or they don't wanna be on that list. Maybe they only wanna be on the list that talks about podcasting or talks about courses or something. So, you know, trying, I guess to warm them back up, uh, and get that open click.

[00:32:14] Sometimes it's getting a little bit tricky or a little bit fancy with subject lines to get them to open an email to reengage with you. That's Probably one way to do it, the other way to do it is, you know, what content have you got out there that they might really like but they're not seeing on your social media?

[00:32:34] Um, perhaps running them through a bit of a campaign of your best content or your brand new lead magnet that you know is gonna help solve their problems. So I, I guess just thinking about it from their point of view, why are they quiet? Why aren't they opening emails? And of course, if you haven't emailed your list in a very long time, it's time to, you know, basically front up to that and send them an email, you know, within a series of saying, Hey, I'm still here.

[00:33:00] You know, I haven't emailed you in a long time. I would love to get back into it. If you're keen, I'll keep you on the list. If not, please click here and unsubscribe and we'll meet each other on Instagram another day or something like that.

[00:33:13] Kristy: Yeah, I think that's such a nice way to say it and, and be true to your word. Like if you are gonna come back and you're going to say, I'm sorry, I haven't been here, then you need to keep showing up after that because it, it's the fastest way to corrode trust is to come back and then go back into radio silence.

[00:33:32] So, you know, knowing that you've got that, Ability to create the content at the cadence or at the frequency that suits you, but honor your word. I think that's the most important thing. Like that's what's gonna underpin people to wanna open the emails the next time or just go, what's she doing?

[00:33:48] Or what's he doing? Or what are they doing? You know, like yeah, so like, and like I know that, you know, there's so much going on, but, and this is just another thing, and if this isn't the right time, a hundred percent, that's okay.

[00:34:01] Like you figure out when it is. But just, I think it's about sticking to your word is, is the most important thing. You've mentioned a few things around what to do, so, you know, actually it's been loaded with lots of advice here. Is there anything else that, you know, dos and don'ts when it comes to email lists that we haven't covered today?

[00:34:19] Jenn: Look, I think some of the, the don'ts are really quite obvious. Don't spam your list. Don't share your list. Don't buy a list. Uh, I still come across people who ask me that question, you know, what's your thoughts on buying a list? I. Uh, I have no thoughts on that. Do not buy a list. , you know, I just don't think that that is the way to go for any business.

[00:34:39] Uh, this time. Don't spam your list. And what spam might mean is it could be how often you do it. It could be the content that you're creating within it, but I think if you're already an established business and people are interacting with your content on socials, it's. Be pretty hard to spam them with things that they don't want to know because you, you already have tested your content somewhere else.

[00:35:03] So, things to do is give it a go. Uh, be consistent with it. And I guess, You know, do some research. Uh, it really is quite a powerful marketing strategy. It's not something that everybody does. I think social media, everyone's on social media, but not everyone is in everyone's inbox. And I think if you can get some real quality on your list, I think it could actually be, you know, quite a profitable marketing strategy for you. So yeah, my biggest advice is if you're not doing it, start.

[00:35:35] Kristy: Hmm. Very, very wise words. I feel like if you're not already email marketing, then this is gonna give you the confidence to look into how you can make this work for you. And if you already are, I hope this, this is inspiring you about what you could maybe do next in your, in your email marketing.

[00:35:52] Jenn, I've really loved this conversation. It's just so yeah, so good. It's not, I haven't had a conversation with anyone about email marketing, so, this is good. It's, it's all good. So I wanna finish this, conversation with one last thing. I'd love to hear your number one business lesson that you can share with our boss who's listening today.

[00:36:09] Jenn: Yeah, my number one business lesson actually is a bit of a, a quote that comes from my mentor I had for many, many years. And it's ready fire aim, and I've basically lived my business life and probably somewhat my personal life as well through that philosophy. So it's just basically saying the world doesn't need more people waiting to do something.

[00:36:32] The world needs more action takers. So people, we don't need more people going, oh, I should try this one day, or I might do that one day. We need people who are going to go righteo, uh, I'm just gonna do this and see how it goes. And Ready fire aims basically get ready, fire it. Just do what it is that you wanna do and, and fix it up as you go.

[00:36:52] Like, yes, it might mean that you're a little bit of a mouse on a wheel and you're trying to fix things as you go, but I guess it's the opposite to perfection. You know, if we wait till something is perfect, we'll never do it. So I kind of live my business philosophy with Ready, fire, aim, which is why you'll find spelling mistakes, which is why you'll find a broken link.

[00:37:10] Because I'm like, oh, I'll just, you know, I just need to get it out. I just need to do it, and I'll fix the stuff as I find the stuff. within reason.

[00:37:18] Kristy: I love that. Ready, fire, aim. And maybe that is your cue, who, if you're listening today and you're not, email marketing ready, fire, aim, take action. That's why we have this podcast. You know, I love talking to you, but I love more when it actually creates impact and that it really does transform your business.

[00:37:34] And Jenn has provided us with a ton of information today to get you started or get you re-excited about email marketing. Jenn, you mentioned you have a podcast. Tell us about where we can find you.

[00:37:47] Jenn: Yeah, so my podcast is called Small Business Made Simple. You'll never guess what it's about. But, uh, you know, like Kristy I have amazing guests. Hopefully you might hear Kristy on one of my podcasts in the near future as well. But I also, you know, just do solo episodes and it's really the whole thing is, um, I just wanna make business life simpler for you because yes, it's not easy, but it definitely should be simpler than what it is in 2023 for us all.

[00:38:14] Kristy: Absolutely. That is my war cry. Let's make everything as simple as we possibly can. So if you are wanting to make your business simple, head over. Check out Jenn's podcast. I'm sure there's all the links to all the other places that you can soak up. Her Goodness, Jenn, appreciate you loved everything that you shared today. Thank you so much for your time.

[00:38:32] Jenn: Oh my absolute pleasure. It's been so good. Thank you.

[00:38:35] Kristy: Thanks, Jenn. And to you boss, thank you so much for joining us for today's conversation. As Jenn and I spoke about, it really is about taking action, building a list, sending emails. It doesn't need to be super complicated.

[00:38:51] And just like what I mentioned in last week's episode, you get to pick the pace and the cadence and the consistency by which you communicate with your clients and prospects. So, I suggest that you make a note of what it is that you need to do to get started. And if you are started and you wanna reignite that email list, what do you need to do to get back in front of your prospects inside of the emails?

[00:39:17] And remember, we don't wanna employ this manic marketing approach. Be sure to pick your consistency at a pace that works for you and your unique business. I really hope you enjoyed this conversation, and I would love you to share this conversation out. Take a screenshot of this podcast episode or where you are listening to this episode along with your takeaways and tag both Jenn and I, all of Jenn's details are down in the show notes.

[00:39:44] Go check her out. Do it. Just go ahead and do the thing. Thanks again for listening to this conversation. I appreciate you and as always, I look forward to chatting with you next week.

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About your host, Kristy

Hi, I'm Kristy, thank you for tuning in to the Run Your Business Like a Boss Podcast. My purpose for the podcast is to help Business Owner’s in the growth stage of business (messy middle) have a sustainable business, they love.


I’m an online business coach, based in Brisbane, Australia. I provide 1:1 business coaching, to Service Based Online Business Owner's and a group coaching program commencing in 2022. I believe whole heartedly that having a Business Coach is what gives you the competitive edge. As your coach I support you to overcome challenges quickly, uncover blindspots and make business decisions with confidence and clarity. All of which keeps you moving forward and maintaining momentum. 

As your Business Coach, my role is to help you organise and formulate your ideas, turn them into a goal and then into an actionable plan! All while meeting you where you're at and providing you relevant tools and support along the way.


Thank you for tuning in to the Run Your Business Like A Boss podcast!

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